In one of the few substantive policy exchanges during Tuesday night's highly-anticipated debate, Vice President Kamala Harris talked more expansively about her energy approach than she has in other appearances to date. She also tried to offer a bit more explanation of her reversal on the issue of a fracking ban.
"My position is that we have got to invest in diverse sources of energy so we reduce our reliance on foreign oil," Harris said at one point touching on green energy but also underlining the fact that she helped approve new leases for fracking during the Biden administration after pushing for a ban in 2019.
All that, which came during at least two exchanges during Tuesday's face-off on ABC, could be described as an embrace of a sort of "all of the above" energy approach.
It was language clearly designed to appeal to moderate voters and was perhaps an example of Harris taking debate advice from moderate figures like independent Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia who had publicly advised her in the run-up to focus on an inclusive energy message.
Harris's continued evolution on the issue is crucial in Pennsylvania.
Tuesday night debate was held in the commonwealth which could very well decide the next president and is also one of the world's largest producers of natural gas.
"Let's talk about fracking because we're here in Pennsylvania," Harris said at one point.
Whether Pennsylvanians are convinced remains to be seen. But the commentary from Harris came as part of a heated back-and-forth on the topic of energy with former President Donald Trump, who largely stuck to his oft-repeated charge that Harris would flip again after the election.
"Fracking? She's been against it for 12 years," Trump said while Harris nodded her head no. He added she was a radical and "if she won the election, fracking in Pennsylvania will end on day one."
Trump also touted his own plans to increase energy production and lower the price of energy.
The energy insights came amid a wide-ranging debate that was nominally about subjects such as the economy, Israel, and healthcare. But Harris often proved able to bait Trump away from substantive critiques.
"They're eating the dogs," Trump said in one particularly memorable moment, echoing an evidence-free right-wing notion that Haitian immigrants are eating pets in a town in Ohio. "The people that came in, they're eating the cats," Trump added before being fact-checked by the moderators.
An energy approach with roots in the 1970s
Stretching back decades, all the way to figures like Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter in the 1970s, politicians in both parties have often espoused support for investment in basically any form of energy that came across their desks.
President Carter, for example, touted green energy and installed solar panels at the White House but also made moves that allowed the expansion of more traditional energy exploration — including the development of hydraulic fracturing after he left office.
"This country needs an all-out, all-of-the-above strategy that develops every available source of American energy," added then-President Obama as recently as his 2012 State of the Union address.
But this approach has been less common in recent years, with Democrats often focused on green energy and Republicans focused on traditional energy sources — and each side dismissing the other’s approach.
The energy discussion Tuesday night in Philadelphia revolved around fracking, the process of releasing buried oil and gas by pumping fluids into bedrock. Environmentalists have long pointed out the environmental damage of the process and argued it should be stopped.
And Harris pushed to eliminate the practice entirely during her 2019 run for the presidency. She said in a CNN town hall that year that "there's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking."
But later in that same campaign season, this time as a candidate for vice president in 2020, Harris began to shift and was promising that then-candidate for President Joe Biden would not ban fracking.
Now, as a 2024 candidate in her own right, Harris discussed the issue Tuesday night in a way that pointed toward a gradual shift in focus to clean energy but with reliance on fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.
"We have invested a trillion dollars in a clean energy economy while we have also increased domestic gas production to historic levels," Harris noted near the end of the debate on the topic in response to a question on climate change.
It was a message that Biden often avoided, and Harris touted the increases in traditional energy production in recent years, with the US currently producing more oil than any country in history.
During the debate, Trump also said he was a supporter of green energy sources but was quick to dismiss them and question their benefits in favor of a return to his charge that Harris would be a radical if elected.
"Fossil fuel will be dead," said Trump at one point. "We'll go back to windmills, and we'll go back to solar, where they need a whole desert to get some energy to come out."
Harris, as she did on multiple topics throughout the night in a debate that most observers said she came out the winner of, dodged Trump's charges and tried to put forth a moderate message aimed at swing voters.
On energy, what that meant was a promise of help for domestic oil production as part of "an approach that recognizes that we cannot over rely on foreign oil."
Ben Werschkul is Washington correspondent for Yahoo Finance.
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