AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I don't know. Usually, the only good numbers that we're going to see are about the rates of change. And they're doing the equivalent of what the White House did with the jobs numbers, where we had the worst month in the history of the American job market, where we lost 22 million jobs in a single month, and then we've, over the intervening months, added about 8 million jobs. That's a lot of jobs, but if you give up 22 runs in the first inning, adding runs in the next three innings is OK, but you've still got a long way to come back.

And that's the same style of argument of all of these. There is some rebound, and that rebound looks somewhat robust until you take into account that the overall level is really quite low. So the real question, I think, is going to be one of does it make the White House seem out of touch if they're going to brag that the economy is strong based on the numbers changing in a positive way when the overall level of unemployment is as high as it is and you've still got 15 million plus people out of work. I think there's a big danger to trying to brag about that economy.

BRIAN CHEUNG: Hi, Austan. It's Brian Cheung here. So not that we expected to hear Joe Biden speak anything about his thoughts on [INAUDIBLE] or what type of economics framework he subscribes to, but what was interesting to me was there was a lot of chatter online about remarks from an advisor to his campaign, that being former Delaware senator Ted Kaufman, who was saying that, when we get in, quote, the pantry is going to be bare with respect to the federal deficit. So I guess when you think about a possible Biden presidency, do you have any sort of thoughts on what their approach might be to federal spending, especially given the nature of what this economy looks like for whoever is going to be taking on the White House in January next year?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Look, I've thought about that a bit, and everybody's thinking about that. I thought there was a-- you know, a bit of overreaction that one advisor, who's a kind of a fiscal conservative, would say that. And I think that it was even taken a little bit out of context, when those comments I thought were more directed to the Republicans will make this argument.

When the-- once the Democrats are in power, they will attempt to just reverse the trend that has taken place under President Trump, where he gave $2 trillion unfunded tax cut to high income people, big corporations, multiple trillions of spending on the CARES Act and fighting COVID following $2 trillion tax cut by George Bush, multitrillion dollar war, also unpaid for. I think the argument, if Republicans are going to turn and suddenly adopt fiscal rectitude as the principle by which we should be choosing what investments to make, I don't think that's going to work this time because they've revealed by their own behavior that they-- that they don't believe it, that it's largely just political.

JESSICA SMITH: Hi, Austan. It's Jessica Smith. I wanted to ask about China. When you see the US relationship with China under President Trump, obviously very rocky when you have trade, the coronavirus, the handling of the pandemic, and now things like the ban on TikTok and WeChat. How would a President Biden approach China differently?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, I mean, it is no secret, I worked with the vice president when I was in the Obama administration in the first term, and the vice president is tough on China and on other trade partners if they're breaking the rules. I think one major difference between the Biden administration and the Trump administration is that the Biden administration would absolutely bring our allies along. If China is engaged in stealing of intellectual property in a way that all the advanced economies of the world would care about, we have been hampered in our ability to deal with those Chinese behaviors because we're simultaneously declaring trade wars against our allies, Europe and Germany and Canada and Mexico and Japan and Korea, and the list goes on and

On. So I do not think that you would see President Biden engage in that kind of simultaneous beggar thy neighbor trade war. And I don't think that you would see-- it's almost like the president feels like he's losing power in other venues, so he's going to try to take it out in the world economy context. I find that kind of dangerous, and I don't think the vice president would approach that way, either.

- Austan, I'm curious what you would say to people who would attack Joe Biden, who has said he's going to raise taxes, but also want to raise the capital gains tax. What would you say to them as to, as an economist, why that, in your opinion, perhaps, would not harm the economy? Because a lot of us I think worry that it might slow things down.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, look, the mentality that says cutting high income people's taxes is a massive boon to economic growth has been disproven so many times that it's almost unbelievable that people are still making the argument that high income tax cuts will pay for themselves, will be magic beanstalk beans that lead everything to go in a positive direction. We've now run that experiment multiple times. George Bush did it, now Donald Trump cut taxes more than they've ever been cut for high income people. And there's 20 plus million people out of work.

So I don't think that the evidence shows that there was a massive rebound of investment when they cut taxes, and so I don't see that going back to historic rates of taxation on high income people would be a negative in that way. And coupled with the essence of the build back better plan is that the best way to help the economy and the best way to help the markets is to strengthen the middle class, not just keep directing all the tax cuts to the top. And that's widely subscribed-- that philosophy is widely subscribed to by the American voters, if you look at the polling.

JULIE HYMAN: Austan, finally, I believe you are advising Joe Biden directly during this campaign, it's my understanding. If he wins--

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Informally, I would say.

JULIE HYMAN: --are you going back to the Council of-- are you going back to the Council of Economic Advisors if he wins? Do you have [INAUDIBLE] for example? What is this administration going to look like?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Look, I think the administration-- I have-- by the way, I've been an informal advisor. I'm friends with the vice president from when we were in office, but I haven't had any formal role in the campaign as such. The administration is going to look like America. They've said that. Other than that, who knows what the-- who the people are. The vice president has always surrounded himself with really top flight advisors. And you kind of saw in the convention this time, you know, the last four days, there's a lot of diversity, and there's some really interesting young voices that I would imagine a lot of them would have a role in the administration.

- Austan Goolsbee is University of Chicago Booth School of Business professor of economics, as well as a former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under President Barack Obama. Always good to see you, Austan. Thank you for joining us--

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Great to see you.

- "--On the Move."