But the hardest thing for these actors, including Tom, you only see a third of their face. So all their acting comes from their eyes. So it's fascinating. They got such great performances. And it was so difficult for all of them because we'd shoot them for-- they'd stay up there for about two hours. We couldn't see what they were doing. They'd come down. We'd look at the footage. And then we had to send them right back up again if it didn't work.

And they had to turn the camera on themselves. They had to know where the sun was because it had to match other aerial stuff that we did. So it was really an exhilarating and scary proposition. And they were beat up, let me tell you. Dealing with those G-Forces, it's really, really difficult.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Well, and kind of to that end, those-- in a theater, it really plays particularly well, right? Like, the intimacy of those shots where you really see their eyes. Do you think that's part of why people were so excited to see it in theaters?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Absolutely. I think the fact that we did it for real-- obviously, the explosions, some other things we couldn't do for real. But what's really the reason that people have gone back multiple times is the emotion. It's about the emotion and following these characters and watching Tom's arc through the movie, a guy who starts out very lonely. At the end of the movie, he finds a family that he can be with. So that is the emotional core. And then you have Iceman in there, Val Kilmer. And Tom said, I'm not doing this movie unless Val is in it. So--

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Which is one of the most moving scenes in the movie. Was that logistically complicated and a logistically complicated shoot?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: The logistics weren't hard, just to get the performances. And what journalists and everybody don't really understand is how good Tom's performance is, and Val's performance. But Tom through the whole movie, his understated performance is just absolutely brilliant.

And the fact that we had the best technicians in the business from the cinematographers, the production designers, the editor-- I mean, Eddie Hamilton edited the movie. He had 814 hours of aerial footage to go through. He had 26 hours of just carrier footage. And all he cared about was finding the very best shot in all the footage. Can you just imagine, when those dailies come in, how much time he had to put into editing the movie?

But again, it comes down to the writing, performances, and the emotion. It's always about the emotion. A lot of people can shoot great action. But if you don't have the emotion, you don't have a great movie.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: You are somebody who has made movies people love for decades. You've stayed on top for so long. What is the secret to understanding an audience?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: I don't understand them at all. I really don't. I just know what I like and make movies that I want to go see. Someday, that will change, but fortunately, it hasn't.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: And in terms of sequels, have you and Tom talked about "Top Gun 3"?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: No.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: No, not yet?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: No, not a word.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: And kind of as you're thinking about the movie theater model, did "Top Gun, Maverick" prove that it's alive and well, or was it an exception?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: No, it's alive and well. Just got to make movies and embrace an audience. And, you know, unfortunately, the pandemic, we weren't making a lot of movies that really could play in theaters. Streaming has its place, theaters have its place. I always use the analogy-- you have a kitchen, right?

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Mm-hmm.

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: But you like to go out to eat. So it's not always you want to stay home and watch something on television. It's a group experience. It's exhilarating when you go to opening weekend, and people are cheering and applauding for the right type of movie. And that's what happened with "Top Gun." I went all weekend the first weekend and stood behind the seats at the Chinese Theater, and I'm watching the movie in IMAX, and watch how exhilarated the fans were at watching that movie.

And when you talk to people, most people haven't just seen it once. They've seen it twice or three times. One person wrote they've seen it 100 times. So it's that kind of an experience you want to give the audiences every time you make a movie. Obviously, we can't do it. But every once in a while, we get really lucky. And we had the right people involved at the right time for the right audience. And the fact that we held it for two years was the best thing that could ever do.

And the audience was ready to come out. I think this is the first movie where an older audience felt safe going to the theaters. A lot of people who saw the movie said this is the first time they've been in a theater in two years. So it got them out because the people who saw it back in '86, '87 wanted to go back and see what we did.

But you know what? They had their arms crossed. That was such a good movie. I know they're going to screw it up. So we had to overcome that first. So I think when you first hear that gong and you see those jets taking off, they relaxed a little bit.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: This movie made a killing without China, without Russia. Does that prove that there could be a future for Hollywood without China and Russia?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Well, we'd love to have them. Unfortunately, in the world politics, we can't get there right now. I hope that will all change. Look, we'd love the whole world to see our movies. We make it for the whole world.

The fact that "Top Gun, Maverick" has made more foreign than domestic, you can just see how there is a worldwide audience for what Hollywood does, and even on a very American subject with American fliers. They love the movie because it was a great experience. It was something that you felt great when you walked out. It took you away from your problems for two hours. And that's exactly why I make entertainment.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Do you feel audience has evolved over time? And as you think about your audience now today, is that different than it was 20 years ago?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: They just want to be entertained. That's all. That's all. Get them in the seat, entertain them, make them feel something. It doesn't always have to make them feel good, but give them a completion at the end.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Well, and give them emotion.

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Always emotion. It's always about emotion. The reason "Bad Boys" was such a big success, was the biggest picture of, what, '21 or '20, because it was an emotional story.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: You're working on "Beverly Hills Cop 4" right now with Netflix. Is there a difference between producing for a studio or a streamer?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: It's all for an audience. And that's what we key on. We want to make the audience enjoy what we do. And there's an audience at home, and there's an audience that leaves home and goes to the theater. But "Top Gun" is a movie you really have to go see in a theater. I mean, it's done phenomenal. And in streaming so far, it's been just great. I think it's the number two of all time already. And it's something that when you watch it, you want to see it again because you felt so good.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: And for you, sequels are where it's at right now, a lot would say. You have "Beverly Hills Cop 4." We haven't talked about "Top Gun 3" yet. "Bad Boys 4" is reportedly in the works. For you, are there any other sequels you're thinking about right now?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Well, we hope to do another "Pirates."

ALLIE GARFINKLE: [GASPS] Really?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Yes.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: That would be awesome. Kind of to that end, you are a risk-taker, right? "Pirates" wasn't obvious initially, right? Do you feel-- what's your relationship to risk taking? And do you feel like Hollywood has stopped taking risks?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: I'll ask the financial people. It's not me. I love making movies that I think that I want to go see, and hopefully an audience will agree with me. And it certainly happened with-- "Pirates" was another movie you can talk about that people had their arms crossed when they walked into it. First of all, it's about a theme park ride. Two other movies about theme park rides just recently failed.

So us coming out there [INAUDIBLE] oh, we're looking for this one. We're going to shoot arrows at it. But when you get a great performance from Johnny Depp and-- it just took people by surprise because of the humor and the wonderful character that Johnny created.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: The soundtrack to "Pirates," right, became completely iconic, right? A lot-- actually, a lot of the soundtracks of your movies have become completely iconic. Do you think about soundtrack a lot as you're working on a project?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: It's important, it really is, to get something that's works for the movie and is also something that creatively is unique and different. And the Lady Gaga song we have, all the different ones that we put in our movies, and working with Hans Zimmer and [INAUDIBLE] and a lot of the other composers that we've worked with, Harold Faltermeyer, they're all great artists.

I mean, look, I think our company, what our secret sauce is, is we know talent. We understand talent. And we seek out new talent. And we look at it from a wholly different perspective. We see things differently. That's why our movies are a little different.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Talk about that different perspective a little bit.

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: I wish I could tell you. I'd sell it and give it to somebody else and go to Hawaii and not even worry about it. But it's something that the way we-- we work so hard at everything we do. We find these new directors. We're doing the picture right now for Disney+ with Daisy Ridley called "Young Woman and the Sea." It's a fantastic story about a swimmer back in 1926.

But the story is that a ferry went down in the early, I think 1919 or 1923. 3,200 women and children were killed, drowned. So the mother, this German immigrant mother said my two girls are going to learn how to swim. The father was totally against it. It was uncouth for women to swim. And one daughter took to the water. She was amazing. She went to the Olympics. She didn't win, but she decided to swim the English Channel.

She tried to swim it once. She was poisoned because the coach had tried it 21 times and failed. It was embarrassing a woman could beat him. And then she swam it again. And not only did she swim the English Channel, the first woman to do it, she beat the male's record by two hours. Extraordinary feat. She had the biggest parade down Fifth Avenue for an athlete ever, including today. So when you see the footage-- we have the real footage in the film-- you won't believe how spectacular it is.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: When you looked at that story, how did you know it was something you wanted to do?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: I like to tell stories about people that were forgotten in time and made a difference. We did it with "Remember the Titans" and "Glory Road" and "Blackhawk Down." So this is another movie that fits into that category. The same thing happened with the first "Top Gun." There was a TV series that was on the air that failed about aviators. And conventional wisdom was that no movie about flying could ever be a success. Same thing with pirate movies. So many pirate movies had failed.

But you look at it a different way. And "Top Gun," we looked at it a different way. We gave you the real experience. We tried to on the first one. We didn't succeed. But the story was so good that you got away with being on a gimbal a lot, where, in this one, they're flying. They're up there. Those actors are really in those planes.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: So "CSI Vegas," Season 2, just kicked off. You are as big on television as you are in the movies. You know, what's the future of TV look like for you? Do you approach TV any differently?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: It's about entertaining the audience. That's it. It's about getting people to enjoy what you do. And I like to do shows that give you an inside look into a world you'll never to be a part of. "CSI" is part of that. We have a new show called "Fire Country," which was the highest rated new show. It just came out two weeks ago. And the ratings actually went up in the second weekend.

So it's a new show. And it's-- again, it's giving you an inside look into what firefighters do. And "CSI" gives you a good look at what CSIs do. And "Top Gun" gave you a great look at what aviators do. But it's-- I guess, it's what we call process. I love giving people process.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: I have to ask, is there an area that you've been curious about that you haven't explored yet on film?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: I think an all-out comedy would be fun to do. We haven't done one of those yet, but maybe someday.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: I do want to talk a little bit about your part ownership of the Seattle Kraken. Tell me a little bit how you approached that, how you knew you wanted to own an NHL team, and what, to you, it means to be a good owner of a sports team.

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Hire good people. That's what a good owner does. And we have a fantastic group of people running the team. And David Bonderman, who financed, who was the lead investor on it, he's just a great gentleman and really supports what the management wants to do with the team. And surround yourself with good people. You're never going to fail.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: What's the secret to Jerry Bruckheimer? You've been on top for so long in an industry that's famously fickle. How have you done it?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Hard work. It's a Sunday. I'm here with you-- or Saturday.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Saturday.

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: [INAUDIBLE] lose track of time. I was in London yesterday. I just got off a plane at midnight last night. And here I am, doing an interview. So, and then I'm jumping on a plane to go see a Kraken game tonight. But do what you love. That's it. I love what I do. I love going to movies. I love sports. I love hockey. And I love being involved with great people and being supportive and trying to do as best we can do. Again, entertaining-- listen, hockey is no different than making movies. It's entertainment.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: And how did when you were good at producing movies?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: I think I started when I was a little kid. I was like 10 years old, 11 years old. I put together a hockey team. I put together a baseball team. So I was always good at organizing things. And I didn't have winners, but it was fun doing it.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: For anyone out there who admires your career, do you have any advice you'd give?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: The harder you work, the luckier you get. But what it is, is you have to find something that you love doing, A, and, B, that you're good at. A lot of things-- I'd love to be a professional hockey player. I'm just no good. There are a lot of things I'd like to do, but I'm not good at them. Find something you'll love doing that you're good at, and pursue that, rather than dream about being something you might not be very good at.

ALLIE GARFINKLE: Thank you so much.

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER: Thank you.